I sat down with Shelby Steele, an author and senior fellow at the Hoover Institution, and his son Eli Steele, the filmmaker behind “What Killed Michael Brown?” Together, they've produced a new documentary, “White Guilt,” that brings Shelby's 2006 book into the present political climate. Shelby has lived the whole story, from segregation to Black Power militancy to now decades as a fearless dissenter on race.

We get into:

• What white guilt really is, and why it became a source of black power

• How the left used collective guilt to claim moral innocence

• Shelby's journey from black radicalism to conservatism

• How American racial politics were grafted onto the Israel-Palestine conflict

• Eldridge Cleaver's transformation from Black Panther to Reagan voter

• Why BLM denies the racial progress of the past 60 years

• Why courage is the only way past racial identity politics